CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER 12:00

HEADLINE: Explosions In, Around Green Zone in Baghdad; Interview With Paul Bremer

GUESTS: Paul Bremer, Wesley Clark, Jay Rockefeller, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Edward Kennedy, Dick Cheney

BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, Ben Wedeman, Bruce Morton

HIGHLIGHT:
Series of explosions rocks Baghdad.

BODY:
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator Kennedy, thanks very much for joining us.

Very powerful speech you just gave on Iraq. But let's get to some of the fundamental facts to date. Are the people of Iraq better off today without Saddam Hussein?

KENNEDY: No question. The removal of Saddam Hussein is a positive step.

Many of us who voted against the war believe that Saddam was a threat, but he never was an immediate threat. And what we have had is this administration, this president manipulated and distorted the intelligence in such a way as to bring the American people to the position that, one, they were close to the point of having nuclear weapons; two, that there was close tie-ins between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein; and three, it was an imminent threat. Those facts were wrong.

And the most important responsibility the president of the United States has is bringing a country to war. And when an administration and a president distorts, manipulates information on this, they don't deserve another try.

BLITZER: And I want to get through all those points. But on the fundamental fact that even now, as we sit here in Washington, people in Iraq are ratifying an interim constitution, Shia and Kurds and Sunni Iraqis, they are debating amongst themselves, democracy, albeit very modest, beginning to take hold, that's a positive development.

KENNEDY: That's a positive. And we've lost 537 Americans.

And there's nothing to suggest that if we didn't have the inspections and the inspections had continued, that we couldn't have galvanized an international community that could have seen a replacement to Saddam Hussein and not seen the loss of American lives. We could have given more focus and attention on trying to find Osama bin Laden. And we could have been more effective working with the international community in terms of battling al Qaeda. We put finding Osama bin Laden, the battle against al Qaeda, on the second row.

Now, listen, with regards to Iraq, I'm hopeful that we're going to be successful there. I do think we ought to internationalize elections. I don't think Americans holding the elections, that it's going to have the credibility that it should. And I think we are in a very serious danger of seeing a civil war in Iraq.

This is not-this is not the end of it.

BLITZER: And no one believes it is. But did those 500-plus American troops die in vain?

KENNEDY: Well, I just think it was a war that we never would have had to fight. That is, the distortions, the misrepresentation on the basis of the threat to the American people by this administration was inaccurate and distorted and misrepresented.

If the members of the United States Senate understood the facts as they were today, that resolution never would have passed. I think we would have continued the containment of Saddam, very well may have been able to bring a change in the regime, and we wouldn't have lost those men. And the possibility of having greater stability in that region would have been enhanced. And we'd be further down the road in finding Osama bin Laden and dealing with al Qaeda.

BLITZER: You voted against that resolution...

KENNEDY: I did.

BLITZER: ... in October of 2002. Senator Kerry, whom you support for the presidency, voted in favor of that resolution. Was he snookered?

KENNEDY: No. I talked to Senator Kerry before the vote. I think we looked at the situation very much the same.

I think John Kerry was thinking what he would-the powers that he would want if he were president of the United States.

If that resolution had passed and John Kerry had been president, we still-we never would have gone to war. We would have mobilized the international community. We would have isolated and contained Saddam Hussein.

I think we would have seen a dramatic change in that region of the country, and we never would have seen the abandonment of the Israeli-Palestinian issue, which was left up in shambles.

BLITZER: The Clinton administration supported a policy of regime change in Baghdad, as well. And you supported a resolution in October of 1998. Let me read to you what you voted for, it was called the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.

"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

KENNEDY: Makes a lot of sense. Made a lot of-makes a lot of-Saddam Hussein was a threat. We're all glad that Saddam Hussein is removed.

But I agree with what Secretary Powell said just a few months before we went ahead and invaded Iraq, that containment was working. I believe that the inspection system, with the international support, was functioning and working. We should have given it a chance.

And I think what is most important is we find out now that this administration has been indicted with its own words, its own misrepresentations, its own distortions, starting with the secretary of defense and continuing with the president.

BLITZER: I interviewed the vice president, Dick Cheney, this week, and he still holds out the possibility that the U.S. team, the inspectors, will eventually find weapons of mass destruction, not just capabilities, but actual stockpiles in Iraq.

KENNEDY: What was his justification for his statements leading us up to war? What was the possible justification when now we know, from the intelligence that we have, that it was a distortion, a misrepresentation? That is what he ought to faulted for. That's what he ought to be faulted for.

BLITZER: Well, in fairness, he said he was relying on George Tenet and the U.S. intelligence community for those estimates.

KENNEDY: The information will have a chance. Both of them-let's hear from them both. Someone has to take accountability. They both can't be right. And when those-clearly...

BLITZER: Who's to blame: George Tenet or Dick Cheney?

KENNEDY: There is no question. It is this administration, it is this president, it is accountability of leadership. Whatever the mistakes were in terms of the intelligence agency, it's this administration and this president that has the responsibility for bringing us to a war and distorting, and misrepresenting, and manipulating intelligence.

That's what we know today.

BLITZER: Well that's a serious charge against the vice president.

KENNEDY: It's true. Against the-in his own words, in his own words, that speech that I've laid out today is the theories in his own words. And they cannot be justified, cannot be demonstrated, cannot be proven.

BLITZER: David Kay, who was the chief U.S. inspector, who spent months in Iraq, looking for weapons of mass destruction, came back and testified, couldn't find any. But even he says there's no evidence that Vice President Cheney or anyone else forced intelligence analysts, career professionals, to tailor or shape their conclusions.

KENNEDY: The fact is his representations, his distortions, his manipulations are so in conflict with what the evidence is, and he must have known it, or should have known it, or Tenet should have told him about it.

It is-there's accountability. Americans want accountability. And there is...

BLITZER: Should George Tenet still be the CIA director?

KENNEDY: Should George-whatever. Whatever. Whatever you want to do with George Tenet is something where the administration can make a judgment.

I am concerned about the leadership of this president and this administration: distortion, misrepresentation, manipulation intelligence-on intelligence. And it's wrong. And that I think they do not deserve to be reelected. And that's what this campaign is about, among other things.

BLITZER: One other sensitive point on the al Qaeda alleged connection to Saddam Hussein. What Cheney and others point to, including this week, is this one individual, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Palestinian who was born in Jordan who's public enemy right now number one in Iraq that he is associated with Ansar al-Islam, which has ties to al Qaeda, hence the connection.

KENNEDY: There's probably no question that there are al Qaeda units in Iraq. There are al Qaeda units in the United States of America. The question is the degree of control that they were having at the time of the previous regime. And there is absolutely no evidence, no evidence according to the FBI and according to the intelligence, that they were. That's the distortion and misrepresentation.

No one doubts that this al Qaeda has been floating around through all of these areas. They are in the United States. The question is control. The question is the contact. The question is the planning and the programming. And they've clearly misrepresented that track.

BLITZER: Speaking of al Qaeda, the 9/11 images that the president and the vice president are using now in their campaign commercials, is that appropriate?

KENNEDY: You know, the most powerful statements and comments about that have been the families.

BLITZER: Some of the families, some of the families. Not all of the families.

KENNEDY: I don't think you need many. I don't think you need many. You know, you don't need many of those that believe, as I do, that those extraordinary images belong to all Americans. And that it's crass to try and politicize it.

And I think that's what this administration has attempted to do. And it's not going to...

BLITZER: In fairness, though, to them, this was the seminal event of this first term of the Bush administration.

KENNEDY: There are ways of talking about-it was the way that America came together. We all came together. We were all part of that moment. This affected all of us. It doesn't belong to a particular political party. This is a moment for all Americans for coming together. We were all proud to come together.

And we all referred to-not only the extraordinary. We had 188 from my own state of Massachusetts. And we've seen the extraordinary courage of those firefighters. That will be emblazoned in all of our souls. But it belongs to all Americans, not a political campaign.

(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Coming up, more of my interview with Senator Kennedy. He'll talk about the race for the White House and why he thinks his fellow Massachusetts senator, John Kerry, can win.

Plus, a check on what's making news this hour, including the explosions that have rocked Baghdad in the last hour and a half.

"LATE EDITION" will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to "LATE EDITION." More of my interview now with Senator Edward Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Everybody agrees that you played an incredibly important role in helping your colleague from Massachusetts, John Kerry, get the Democratic nomination. You were out there in Iowa. I saw you out there in New Hampshire, all over the country.

But now many political observers say it's time to Senator Kennedy to step back a little bit, because he's got to reach out to moderate and middle-of-the-roaders, the so-called swing voters.

Should you lower your profile, for the benefit of Senator Kerry and those so-called swing states?

KENNEDY: I'm glad to help in any and every kind of way that I possibly can.

Beyond this, I think that this has been John Kerry's victory. I think people took a reading on him and were reminded about his extraordinary courage in the Vietnam, personal kinds of courage, wounded in action, saving a crew member's life.

And they also like a fighter. And John Kerry was out, from all the political pundits, and he came back. People like a fighter. I do, too. And America's going to find out what a fighter he is.

I'm glad to go wherever we can be helpful and do what can be helpful.

BLITZER: And everyone knows you're a fighter. But let's talk about what they're trying to do. They're trying to paint him as a Massachusetts liberal, like Michael Dukakis.

KENNEDY: The time for cliches, the time for slogans are over. The one thing that we have seen over the last three years, we have an administration that doesn't do what it says and doesn't say what they'll do.

And people want to know what you're going to do about the economy. Here we have the economic projections by this administration. You're going to have 300,000 jobs this month. They created 21,000. And those jobs are paying 20 percent less than the jobs that they replaced.

They want to know, "Where's your program to deal with health care and health care costs?" It doesn't exist. They want to know what you're going to do about the increased cost of prescription drugs. They don't have a plan.

People are tired of cliches, slogans. John Kerry will talk truth to these issues.

BLITZER: And he'll fight aggressively, unlike Michael Dukakis, who some say held back?

KENNEDY: Well, John is ready to take this case to them. He's a fighter, and he'll take it to them. No one's going to misrepresent or distort.

BLITZER: This new Associated Press poll that came out this week, 46 percent for Bush, 45 percent for Kerry, very close, well within the margin of error. But look at this: 6 percent for Ralph Nader. He got almost 3 percent last time around.

Six percent for Ralph Nader? That could make-easily make the difference.

KENNEDY: Well, it's once again-reminds all Americans how important their votes are. And whether-wherever they're going to be, and wherever they're going to come out, people ought to understand what's at stake in this country, the issues of war and peace, the state of our economy and the state of our judiciary.

The next president is going to probably nominate three Supreme Court justices to the Supreme Court. Anyone that cares about fighting for their values and their rights will get up early any morning and go out and work very hard for John Kerry.

Because he will appoint someone that will be in the mainstream of judicial thinking, and what we have seen with this administration, with its appointments to the judiciary, they don't meet that criteria.

BLITZER: You and Ralph Nader have been aligned on many issues over the years. Are you going to appeal to him to reconsider?

KENNEDY: Well, I mean, I'm glad to communicate to him and let him know my view. I'm not all of that close to Ralph Nader. I respect him, what he's done in the past.

I would believe that people have a real understanding, in this particular race, given the last one, the importance of their individual votes. And they will understand how important every vote is. And I'm convinced that Senator Kerry will win.

BLITZER: The commonwealth of Massachusetts, your state, about to go ahead and allow gay marriages to take place, in mid-May. I assume it will go forward, even though there's an effort to try to get a state constitutional amendment to change that.

Is this what you want?

KENNEDY: I've been strongly opposed to discrimination and prejudice my whole life in the United States Senate, and I've supported the Massachusetts ruling. I am strongly opposed to a federal constitutional amendment.

You've got 18 constitutional amendments to the United States Constitution. With the exception of Prohibition, one or two others, every one of them have been about expanding rights and expanding liberties.

And for this president, this administration, to offer a constitutional amendment which will write discrimination and prejudice into the Constitution, I find enormously offensive. And to do it for political purposes, I find enormously troubling.

I don't believe that they'll be successful. Nor do I believe that they should be successful. This is ultimately a decision that will be decided by the states.

BLITZER: But you personally-you're a good Catholic. You support gay marriage?

KENNEDY: Yes. I support the Massachusetts Supreme Court. The Massachusetts Supreme Court decision does not require any sacramental aspect, does not require the Catholic Church to perform a sacramental marriage, doesn't a Protestant Church, a mosque or a temple to perform that.

So we're basically talking about civil marriages, or civil unions, in which all of federal benefits, approximately 1,200, will be available to people. And they will be treated fairly. And it seems to me that that is the right way to go.

BLITZER: One final question. I know Senator Kerry relies on your advice for many issues. What about a short list for vice president?

KENNEDY: He's going about it the right way. He's asked Jim Johnson, who's a well-known political figure. People have broad-he has broad contacts in the Democratic Party and has been a very prominent and successful Democratic leader, to go through this process.

I think Senator Kerry will get an excellent series of recommendations. He'll make his judgment after...

BLITZER: You want to throw out a few names?

KENNEDY: No.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: I didn't think you would, but I figured I'd ask Senator Kennedy. Thanks very much.

KENNEDY: Thanks very much. Nice to see you. Good to see you.

BLITZER: Thanks.